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View Poll Results: Poll
Ban All 9 30.00%
Ban Only Automatics 5 16.67%
No Ban 16 53.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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AetiusAetius is offline
 
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Oh, look. Here's some actual data from actual countries instead of the same arguments over and over again!

Table copied directly from the link that you probably won't even bother to click on:

Table 1: European Gun Ownership and Murder Rates
(rates given are per 100,000 people and in descending order)
Notes: This table covers all the Continental European nations for which
the two data sets given are both available. In every case, we have given
the homicide data for 2003 or the closest year thereto because that is the
year of the publication from which the gun ownership data are taken. Gun
ownership data comes from GRADUATE INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL
STUDIES, SMALLARMS SURVEY64 tbl.2.2, 65 tbl.2.3 (2003).
The homicide rate data comes from an annually published report,
CANADIAN CENTRE FOR JUSTICE STATISTICS, HOMICIDE IN CANADA,
JURISTAT, forthe years 2001–2004. Each year’s report gives homicide sta‐
tistics for a dozen or so foreign nations in a section labeled “Homicide
Rates for Selected Countries.” This section of the reports gives no explana‐
8.GARY KLECK, TARGETING GUNS: FIREARMS AND THEIR CONTROL 20 (1997) (discussing patterns revealedby studies in theUnitedStates).
9.Our assertions as to the legality of handguns are based on COMM’N ON CRIME
PREVENTION & CRIM. JUSTICE, U.N. ECON. & SOC. COUNCIL, UNITED NATIONS
INTERNATIONALSTUDYON FIREARMSREGULATION 26,tbl. 2‐1 (1997draft).
Nation Murder Rate Rate of Gun Ownership
Russia 20.54 [2002] 4,000
Luxembourg 9.01 [2002] c. 0
Hungary 2.22 [2003] 2,000
Finland 1.98 [2004] 39,000
Sweden 1.87 [2001] 24,000
Poland 1.79 [2003] 1,500
France 1.65 [2003] 30,000
Denmark 1.21 [2003] 19,000
Greece 1.12 [2003] 11,000
Switzerland 0.99 [2003] 16,000
Germany 0.93 [2003] 30,000
Norway 0.81 [2001] 36,000
Austria 0.80 [2002] 17,000


Verdict: no correlation one way or the other. Guns should not be banned because there is no reason to do so.



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AetiusAetius is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Member View Post
That's probably because there are so many guns in America.

And this statistic doesn't really mean much, as the amounts of murders in Chicago might have decreased, (i'm not saying it did, but that statistic alone does not prove it) or because the criminality has increased. (Killing someone with a weapon is more professional than killing someone with a knife).

Just this one example does not prove that an anti gun law wouldn't work.
That statistic shows that, at least for one city, the ban did not work as intended.



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Guns should not be banned, I don't care if you own a weapon that can fire 1200 rounds per seconds I think you are entitled to it. This is because history has shown us, those with power abuse those without, a gun is the power to shoot back, not just be shot at.

If I live in Syria I would own a gun.
If I live in Pakistan I would own a gun.
If I live in the most secure place on the planet, I'd still own a gun.

Both of my roommates have AR-15s that can be converted to fully-auto if they wanted.

We all have handguns.


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NightingaelNightingael is offline
 
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Ban all guns.
Why on earth would you need a gun?
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Originally Posted by Nightingael View Post
Ban all guns.
Why on earth would you need a gun?
For defense

Really, it's better to let anyone have a gun than to ban them, because criminals are going to get guns anyway, and this way at least people have some sort of defense against them, besides a knife which would be useless against someone who's armed


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DiggydugDiggydug is offline
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Originally Posted by Nightingael View Post
Ban all guns.
Why on earth would you need a gun?
Not sure if you've been to Earth before, but ****'s crazy.


Reasons to own a gun:

Hunting
Sport
Self defense
Crime (covers lots of things)

CBA to grab a statistic right now, but licensed gun owners aren't the ones shooting people as far as I can tell.

It's also written in our constitution and ingrained in our culture. You can't just say, "K guns are illegal, turn 'em in boys" and expect people to comply.


As Aetius has pointed out, guns aren't the issue.


EDIT: And what's with the poll? Automatic weapons are practically illegal. It's an insane process to get one, and even then it's not like you can go hunting with it or anything. Find me someone who owns an automatic weapon in the US and I'll be immensely surprised, and I live in Texas.

Bothers me when people want to talk about it and don't know the basics.


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Last edited by Diggydug; 11-29-2013 at 08:22 AM.
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NightingaelNightingael is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Diggydug View Post
Not sure if you've been to Earth before, but ****'s crazy.


Reasons to own a gun:

Hunting
Sport
Self defense
Crime (covers lots of things)

CBA to grab a statistic right now, but licensed gun owners aren't the ones shooting people as far as I can tell.

It's also written in our constitution and ingrained in our culture. You can't just say, "K guns are illegal, turn 'em in boys" and expect people to comply.
You mean in US.

Here's a relative comparison for you.

Estonia
Rate of private gun ownership: 9.21 firearms per 100 people
Annual (2011) rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population: 2.54

US
Rate of private gun ownership: 101.05 firearms per 100 people
Annual (2011) rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3

One could make a connection.

Also, why do you need to OWN a gun to do sports or hunting? You can lend it from the sports/hunting establishment.
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Originally Posted by bman7 View Post
For defense

Really, it's better to let anyone have a gun than to ban them, because criminals are going to get guns anyway, and this way at least people have some sort of defense against them, besides a knife which would be useless against someone who's armed
And the criminal will undoubtedly take a gun with when he's doing his criminal thing cause he knows the person he's stealing from has one.

Ultimately promoting gun violence.
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Originally Posted by Nightingael View Post
You mean in US.

Here's a relative comparison for you.

Estonia
Rate of private gun ownership: 9.21 firearms per 100 people
Annual (2011) rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population: 2.54

US
Rate of private gun ownership: 101.05 firearms per 100 people
Annual (2011) rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3

One could make a connection.

Also, why do you need to OWN a gun to do sports or hunting? You can lend it from the sports/hunting establishment.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause


And it's much more convenient if you have your own gun, otherwise you have to go out, get the gun, then go hunting/to a competition, then give the gun back. And the business has to own the gun, so all that really accomplishes is making it inconvenient to anyone who wants to use a gun, legally or illegally.


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DiggydugDiggydug is offline
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Originally Posted by Nightingael View Post
You mean in US.

Here's a relative comparison for you.

Estonia
Rate of private gun ownership: 9.21 firearms per 100 people
Annual (2011) rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population: 2.54

US
Rate of private gun ownership: 101.05 firearms per 100 people
Annual (2011) rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3

One could make a connection.

Also, why do you need to OWN a gun to do sports or hunting? You can lend it from the sports/hunting establishment.
You just compared one country to another, ignoring ALL of what Aetius posted. Nice.

And yeah, people need to own a gun to hunt, what kind of bull**** would it be to go ask the government or any other entity to borrow a rifle so you can go hunt a deer?

Originally Posted by Nightingael View Post
And the criminal will undoubtedly take a gun with when he's doing his criminal thing cause he knows the person he's stealing from has one.

Ultimately promoting gun violence.
Or it could be argued that because people have guns a criminal is deterred from doing it in the first place. If you're a felon, legally acquiring a gun is pretty much not going to happen anyway.



You ignored parts of my post, why?


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